Exclusive Interview with BRC-20 Founder Domo: Ethereum "Traitor" Goes into Seclusion for 48 Hours, Igniting Bitcoin Ecosystem

The original interview is from Isabel Foxen Duke.

Compiled by Odaily Planet Daily Golem

Editor's Note: In March 2023, Domo launched the BRC-20 token standard. Over the past two years, the Bitcoin ecosystem has gone through the ups and downs of the crypto industry, from being overlooked and questioned to being widely embraced, and finally falling back into obscurity. The birth of BRC-20 is undoubtedly a milestone for the Bitcoin ecosystem, but who is still committed to the Bitcoin ecosystem and the BRC-20 today?

As BRC-20 celebrates its second anniversary, founder Domo, who has never accepted public interviews, made his first appearance on Isabel Foxen Duke's show, discussing his crypto journey, stories before and after the birth of BRC-20, his views on UniSat, and future development plans for BRC-20. Odaily Planet Daily has compiled and translated the original interview as follows, enjoy～

Before entering the industry, I worked in data analysis, and I made my first bucket of gold from NFT Summer.

Host: I’m very glad you could come. This is your first video interview, and we want to take this opportunity to help the audience learn more about your story. I heard that before Ordinals and BRC-20, you didn’t really pay much attention to Bitcoin. Is that true? What were you doing before getting involved with the Ordinals protocol?**

Domo: Two years ago, I really didn't put most of my energy into Bitcoin. Like most people, it was the Ordinals protocol that brought me back to Bitcoin. Before that, Bitcoin was just fluctuating in my account, but I wasn't actually doing anything.

I got into cryptocurrency relatively late, starting my crypto journey in 2019, but my involvement is still not deep. I mainly learned some basic crypto information through Reddit and YouTube. The real turning point happened in the summer of 2020 when I was working in data science. I discovered the DeFi innovations on Ethereum, particularly projects like Uniswap.

There is very clean data on the chain, and I don't even need to spend hours processing it to analyze it. So, the first thing I did was to scrape Ethereum data for analysis and build a Telegram bot to track traders on the chain, and time has proven that they were the most profitable group during the DeFi summer.

Later, I invested all my monthly salary into Bitcoin and Ethereum, but in reality, they almost drove me to bankruptcy, so I realized that there might only be opportunities in the native crypto space. Around January to February 2021, I discovered some particularly useful NFT Discords, and I utilized my on-chain data skills to capture a lot of Alpha during the market frenzy of NFT Summer, so my financial performance was excellent in 2021 and I had a great time.

But I have been constantly looking for a way to join this industry full-time. Until November 2021, I met someone in an NFT Discord who was working for a large crypto payment company, then I joined their company and led the team's on-chain data analysis work for the next few years until I released the BRC-20 protocol.

The birth of BRC-20: Bitcoin punks and .stas domain names provided great inspiration.

Host: Do you remember when you first heard about Ordinals?

Domo: I can't remember the exact time, but I probably first saw it in January 2023. However, I didn't do anything at that time. It wasn't until I saw it again in February that I realized it was no longer just an experimental thing being tinkered with by a small group of people in a basement.

The early Ordinals collection also played an important role in the birth of the BRC-20. Bitcoin punks, for example, were actually the first to invent the "Fair launch" on Bitcoin because we didn't have a way to distribute it through smart contracts.

Then, the .stas domain was born, bringing JSON format data to the public and into the Bitcoin mempool. When I opened my computer at work and discovered it, I felt it was really amazing. We have taken another step forward; the Ordinals protocol is no longer just an art protocol, it can also use Bitcoin as a data availability layer.

The infrastructure is right in front of us, and you can do what you want to do. So I wondered if we could do something else? From that moment on, I thought the Ordinals protocol was like a gateway to the data availability of Bitcoin, which most users can easily access regardless of technical ability or background.

Host: Before creating the BRC-20 protocol, did you brainstorm this protocol with anyone else? Or did you participate in any community discussions?

Domo: After seeing the .sats domain used in JSON format on-chain, I came across a tweet from a blogger called "redphone." He collaborated with Delphi Ventures to release a pseudo-specification. I believe his design will succeed, but it lacks a few key elements; however, it is still inspiring.

Later, I locked myself in a room for two days and then created the BRC-20 protocol, but a large part of the credit still goes to redphone**.** In the following days, I established the start date and indexer in terms of data, but it was the worst indexer ever, breaking down after just an hour of operation. However, it at least proved that this method is indeed feasible.

It took me a while to understand two things: one is the tiered design of the balance, including available balance and transferable balance. The other is how to prove that you own something? Because in reality, anyone can inscribe something for themselves and transfer it, which means anyone can steal someone else's balance. Therefore, I formulated a specification that should initially include four functions (deployment, minting, transferring, and trading).

The trading feature was initially not launched because considering the situation at that time, I believed it would add unnecessary complexity, and this issue could be addressed later. However, I think this omission was necessary, and one of the biggest lessons I learned from this experience is to keep it simple; I believe this is a key decision.

Host: So you launched this token standard and deployed the first-ever inscription, then posted it on Twitter and started getting a lot of attention. What happened for you in the following week?

Domo: I initially deployed ordi as a test to prove the feasibility of this token standard. However, someone used this protocol before I published the gitbook, so before I released the token standard, someone had already deployed another token. When I saw it, I wanted to publish this token standard as soon as possible.

An hour after the release of BRC-20, my friend DM'd me saying that this experiment was a failure, so I really didn't sleep well that night. But I still think that ordi might be minted out within 24 hours. They might be using the inscription minting tool or the Ordinals client itself. At that time, I also didn't know exactly who created an indexer to check the balance by tracking ordi's transactions.

Host: Why has BRC-20 spread so quickly that people started building tools for it within about 16 hours after you tweeted?

Domo: I believe that previous innovative attempts have already caught the attention of the Ordinals core community, such as the .sats domain name, so they will be interested when there is something new to try. Additionally, I think some people have also seen business opportunities in engraving tools, which would become a cash cow with simple batch engraving. In summary, from a user's perspective, these are all factors of timing and favorable conditions.

UniSat's contribution to BRC-20

Host: When did UniSat get involved in the construction of BRC-20?

Domo: UniSat was originally an inscription tool, and they might have launched an indexer in early April 2023. However, I don't remember how I later got in touch with UniSat, maybe I sent them a private message, or maybe they sent me a private message.

At that time, I received many private messages from people, among which there were many scammers. They would say that you should deploy ORDI into the liquidity pool on Ethereum. What attracts me to UniSat is that they have developed relevant tools and have been tested in real combat, which shows that they have a solid technical team behind them. The UniSat team comes from the BSV community, and in fact, most of the early builders and Ordinals players are from there. I believe the emergence of indexers has also triggered a second wave of OTC frenzy, because instead of blindly trusting, you can now verify through intermediaries whether you really received it.

Host: So, they are voluntarily participating in the construction, and there is no cooperation between you?

Domo: I was really too tired at the time, so I was willing to support anyone who volunteered to build. UniSat was the most involved and capable team at the time, and there were also various other teams that provided help in the early stages, such as Best In Slot, for which I am very grateful.

I had some discussions with UniSat when establishing the indexer, but I did not participate in the construction of the UniSat market. It wasn't until UniSat established the BRC-20 market at the end of April that we truly obtained good pricing data, which might also be the first time I really started paying attention to prices, as over-the-counter trading is usually very unreliable.

BRC-20 feels the pressure after the explosion in popularity

Host: Do you feel pressure after the BRC-20 craze?

Domo: Yes, it's very stressful. Even though we have built an indexer, there is still a lot of noise on Twitter saying that it's wrong both technically and from a Bitcoin maximalist perspective.

Before I launched BRC-20, I was an "Ethereum person" and didn't have the same connections in the Bitcoin community as I did in Ethereum. To be frank, I didn't know much about Bitcoin at that time. My view of the Bitcoin community was that it embodied the ideals proposed by Satoshi Nakamoto, including open access, freedom, and fairness. So I was thinking about how to emulate the principles of fairness, freedom, and openness from Bitcoin in this experiment, which ultimately led me to make several decisions that I believe were an important factor in the success of the fair minting functionality.

However, at that time, these negative comments had a significant impact on me. Some people would ask what I would improve if I were to recreate BRC-20. But in my opinion, BRC-20 is a one in a million success story, and any adjustments to the design variables at the time could have changed the outcome. BRC-20 is indeed a very inefficient protocol, and we can improve it, but blind improvements also come with some risks.

I am very glad that I did not follow many of those suggestions; we are taking a slow improvement approach because I believe that only practical ideas can improve the protocol in the long run, and hasty actions will only be a stopgap measure.

is not insider trading knowledge that the exchange will list the inscription.

Host: Before ORDI goes live on centralized exchanges like OKX, did you participate in the listing on centralized exchanges? Do you know what will happen next?**

Domo: In fact, I didn't participate at all. Apart from Gate, they sent me a private message in advance, but when I woke up, I found that it had already been listed. The only thing I can possibly say are some factors that facilitated the listing. From the perspective of exchanges listing tokens, 2023 was a special time when not much was happening at the beginning of the year, and PEPE was just a flash in the pan. So BRC20 was the star of the market narrative at that time, and it makes sense for these exchanges to list it.

Most of the tokens held by exchanges are Bitcoin. At that time, I assumed that if Bitcoin leaves their exchanges and conducts on-chain transactions in the UniSat market or other markets, it would create a liquidity bubble. To solve this problem, exchanges can only list these assets and then build tools around them.

BRC-20 The Decentralized Road: The Future of BRC-20 Without Domo is a Good Thing, but Not Yet.

Host: Although the indexer built by UniSat is mainstream, Best In Slot has also created an indexer. Can you share how Best In Slot is involved, what problems they are trying to solve, and how they are attempting to index BRC20 in a different way?

Domo: I met Best In Slot at a conference in Singapore in September 2023, and I might have seen them again in Miami; I don't remember the exact time, but we have been chatting for a while. They mentioned that they built an indexer, and the team has a strong technical background from Ethereum; indexing is their specialty.

I was glad that there was a super competitor interested in BRC-20 indexing, because there was a saying that BRC-20 was centralized and that we needed a consortium of multiple indexers. So then we had OPI, which is a much more decentralized client that anyone can easily run.

Host: What impact does a significant upgrade to the Ordinals protocol have on the BRC-20 indexer? How are you responding to it?

Domo: My primary concern is still security. In my view, some of the new upgrades do not improve the protocol and could pose risks to us. Ultimately, the lack of communication may have led to turmoil due to the debates among indexers, but UniSat compromised. I appreciate everyone's cooperation; everyone agreed that any form of fork does not serve the best interests of the community, and then we found a solution that fits everyone's needs and interests.

Later, to avoid similar situations from happening again, we established the Layer 1 Foundation, whose best use is to create some governance rules so that we can handle these decisions in a smarter way in the future. UniSat and Best In Slot are the main maintainers of this organization, collaborating with each other.

I am very satisfied with such results; open source protocols should be like this. As time goes by, the founder's ideas are not necessarily the best. Better technologies, more experience, and more people dedicated to the protocol joining is what makes it healthy. I like this way of development; I feel more like a coordinator. In the future, Domo may no longer be part of BRC20, and I think that would be a good thing, but clearly, it is not the case right now.

BRC-20 swap module and programmable module

Host: You have been discussing two major upgrades to the protocol, the swap module and the programmable module, for about the past 8 or 9 months. Can you share what these are?

Domo: The swap module dates back to the summer of 2023, when we realized that we were not trading these assets like fungible tokens, but rather more like NFTs. Any reasonable protocol would strive to improve this user experience, which is why the swap module was born. Of course, at that time we made the mistake of thinking that this black-and-white technology was unfeasible, but later UniSat and the Fractal network proved that its experience is good.

However, what people talk about more is the UniSat swap, but this module is not exclusive to UniSat; any team can deploy a swap module and use tokens.

I remember that the programmable module was discussed at a Bitcoin summit in Taiwan in 2023. I think it would make a lot of sense if they could solve the compatibility issue of Bitcoin, such as binding data to Bitcoin using UTXO.

I believe that ultimately programmable protocols will prevail in the market. Two years have passed, and we are still trading BRC20 tokens using the method of trading NFTs, which is a poor experience. If you are a Solana degen trading on the Bitcoin network, you might want to return to Solana immediately. We must adapt to the market, which is why I am interested in programmable modules.

However, for me, the top priority at the moment is to ensure the survival of BRC-20 assets. Programmable modules and the "Single step transfer" we have been researching can help BRC-20 better integrate into other ecosystems, so users don't have to "hang themselves on one tree" with BRC20, making the assets being created objects that need support, rather than the standard itself.

Host: Can the programmable module solve the interoperability issues between BRC-20 and other protocols like Runes? Or do we still need L2? What are your thoughts?

Domo: Currently, there are various solutions, such as centralized cross-chain bridges, L1.5 layers, or those L2. Interestingly, in the Bitcoin space, everyone is making trust assumptions, questioning who we should trust, and so on. However, if we approach it from an industry perspective, we need to understand the needs of different people. For instance, if you are a Bitcoin whale, there may be only a few protocols like Babylon that can meet your conditions.

But if you are a degen, you won't care about these things at all, because you are already used to centralization, and you are just here to look for Alpha. I don't know how this interoperability game will ultimately turn out, but I think it is still necessary.

Host: Do you think BRC-20 has more advantages than some other protocols that are currently being developed for programmability?**

Domo: If BRC-20 does nothing at the moment, I think the most likely scenario is that some programmable protocols will emerge and dominate the market, while BRC-20 will be unable to participate because it lacks interoperability. However, if BRC-20 goes the programmable route, then there is a chance to regain people's attention, but that doesn't mean it will necessarily succeed.

BRC-20 single-step transfer

Host: As a builder, what issues do you hope the community will focus on solving?**

Domo: I think many people only focus on the immediate issues and overlook that many interesting things are happening in the Bitcoin ecosystem. For example, a few months or even a year from now, those Bitcoin VM bridges might create huge profit opportunities just like DeFi. If I were a builder, I would work towards this direction. Remember the early days of Ordinals, when being a part of this industry was quite joyful, people respected each other and were full of optimism, I hope people can return to that state.

Host: You have mentioned "Single step transfer" multiple times. Is this a new thing that BRC-20 users are looking forward to?

Domo: Single-step transfer can abstract the wallet, addressing the issue of the number of Bitcoin wallets. It not only enhances the user experience but also makes it easier for BRC20 to integrate with other systems than before. Many current cross-chain bridge designs remain overly complex for users, who are accustomed to sending UTXO, providing an experience similar to a simple cross-chain bridge lock. We even plan to enable lightning channels, etc., but I am not ready to make any commitments yet.